Posts by Cold Steel

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

Blondie » Just reporting not supporting. I would check www.jw.org and do a search from time to before querying JWN.

Yeah, I know...and your reporting is, as always, top notch. But jw.org always raises more questions than it answers...and it's frustrating. For example:

Since Jehovah’s spirit anointed him for the work, Jesus was clearly ordained by Jehovah God. When did this happen? Jehovah’s spirit actually came upon Jesus when he was baptized. (Luke 3:21, 22) Therefore, it was at his baptism that he was ordained.

This is a wacked out explanation by the WTBTS and whatever they attempt to explain turns into a series of non-seqiturs. How can they say Jesus was clearly ordained when Jehovah's spirit "anointed him for the work? How is that clear? When the Spirit of God came upon Saul at the school of the prophets (when he was pursuing David), was he ordained? Yet there's no one there to ask at jw.org. I guess we're just supposed to accept it. When Jesus told the Twelve, "...I have ordained you," he wouldn't have needed to if they had been baptized. There are also those other offices: bishops, seventy, apostles, deacons, priests, elders and so forth. If they each required ordination, then how would those clearly happen? There are no scriptures that answer this question.

The articles purport to answer these questions, but they really don't.

I'm afraid they wouldn't want me as a member, as these answers don't even make sense. When Jeremiah was told by the Lord: "Before thou wast born I knew thee, and before thou camest forth from the womb I called thee and ordained thee a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) Thus one can say he was clearly called and ordained before he was born.

Anyway, I do appreciate your materials. You apparently know where to look.

At his baptism Timothy became a minister. From then on, his life, his strength, and everything he had belonged to God.

It doesn't say anywhere that Timothy became a minister when he was baptized. It's all pap! They just spout these things off!

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

But where in the Bible does it state that all baptized members are ordained ministers? It's a concept I just don't find. Also, what of bishops, deacons, priests and seventy mentioned in the New Testament? These all appear to be offices within the church, yet we don't know a lot about them. Do these offices need ordination and, if so, who gets to ordain whom?

Elders seem to be an internal police force, as they evoke fear in some members.

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

Well, that's incredible. I have family who are members but I'm not sure how active they are. Preaching to a colleague would be did difficult and I imagine it would be awkward.

Just out of curiosity, if someone knows (or can ask an elder), where in the Bible does it say that ordinary members of the church are supposed to do missionary work?

I see that the apostles preached the gospel. And the seventy also. But not the saints as a whole. If they had, there would have been far more deaths (as martyrs) in the first century. I'd also like to hear where every baptized member is an ordained minister of the gospel.

If that's true, then any of you active members could baptize anyone you wished without permission. You could baptize your wife, kids, anyone.

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

Do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism? And do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves? What do Pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives? I mean, you knock on a door and your boss or coworker answers in a bathrobe and a t-shirt.

Has this ever happened to you? What would you say?

And are JWs still pushing bible study? Lately they just give me some magazines and leave. I notice that many come in two cars. They head out and around noon-thirty, they all head back to the cars and I think they go to lunch.

They used to ask for donations for their magazines years ago. Who pays for the magazines they distribute?

11

The God of The Bible Must be Stupid

by AnonVet in

i don't mean to be blasphemous to the real god.

i just don't think the god of the bible is our actual god.

and i think the god of the bible is not very bright.. i was thinking about the flood the other day.

Cold Steel

That you don't believe in any of the fables makes it impossible to to understand them. In the case of Adam and Eve, what if the fall of man was supposed to happen? If God knows all things from the beginning, it stands to reason God knew there would be a fall. He put an innocent couple in a garden setting with a malicious mastermind. In their innocent state, Adam and Eve would have been ignorant, knowing neither good nor evil. What would man have to gain from the fall? Everything. Going from a state where there is no growth, no progression, to a mortal environment. In mortality his very soul could be forged in the flames of adversity. But it was a decision man had to make. And through Christ, man gained the ability to become like God. (See I John 3:2) This he never could have achieved in a state of innocence. His body had no glory and he had no potential.

Next you mentioned Armageddon. But keep in mind that the JWs have a specialized interpretation of this great battle that correlates with no other Christian faith. In actual prophecy, Armageddon is simply a great battle between Muslim nations and Israel in the latter days. (See Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12, 14, Revelation 11) On the verge of destruction, Jerusalem is saved when Jesus returns in power and glory to rule the world. It is not some event where fire falls from the sky and everyone but JWs die horrible deaths.

You're right about man degenerating at the end of the thousand years. When Satan is released at the end of that time, he will gather great numbers of people together in an attempt to wage one final battle, called after the first, Gog and Magog. But unlike the first, God will bring it to a quick end. Then will come the final judgment.

As with any religion, the Bible is open to many views and interpretations. The Jehovah's Witnesses, whatever their intentions, have one of the worst, most narrow theologies of any religion out there. It doesn't teach the love of God or his mercies. Everything is based on discipline, service, not in the form of relief efforts, but in conversion, and in consequences, of which there are many. Nothing is well thought out, so it's not really fair to judge the God of the Bible as seen through JW eyes.

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

Cold Steel

If there is a one true religion, it shouldn't be impossible to find it where it's present. But for most of the world it may be impossible because of religious suppression. Certainly Christianity cannot flourish in China or Muslim countries, so finding it in many countries would not be feasible.

I also don't believe a true church could exist without revelation. If there is no communication with God, there's no point in having a church. But that said, God made man imperfect and subject to error. To think He would condemn a person for not having a Bible Study or "accepting Jesus" by the time they die, however, would be unjust. Calvinists believe God created some people to be exalted on high and other people not to make it. But where's the justice in that? And what justice would there be in throwing an atheist into hell? People say, nah, you're giving people a second chance. No, you give everyone the same chance.

14

The definition of a false prophet

by HereIgo in

the last time i spoke to my mother, who is a devout jw, she threatened me with typical jw scare tactics telling me how oh so close the end is and how me and my 2 young daughters will be slaughtered by god himself in armageddon.

knowing that this is just a scare tactic, i respectfully listened, then replied that the jw's have wrongfully predicted the end of the world three times and were incorrect, 1914, 1925, 1975. i asked doesn't that make them false prophets?

her response; " no, because the brothers are imperfect and jehovah knew their heart was in a sincere place.

Cold Steel

Ummmm...why would God kill your two young daughters? You I can understand. (You're just an old worldly apostate.)

But what's the thinking on killing your daughters?

14

Name one Watchtower date that they got correct

by FatFreek 2005 in

it was the year 2011. remember that one?

surprise, surprise -- it wasn't one of their predictions.

it was from one of their competitors, harold camping.. "religious leaders sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers.

Cold Steel

The JWs have always left a little wiggle room in its predictions.

Most of the JWs I've spoken to immediately say 1914, adding that no other religion was able to pinpoint that date except them. They were very proud of that accomplishment.

I'm still trying to appreciate the prescience. Perhaps someone could help me.

21

Living Vicariously Through the Sheep.

by donny in

when i got baptized as a jehovah’s witness in the summer of 83, my honeymoon period lasted about two years before i began to wonder if the society and its adherents were all it claimed to be.

no of the things i encountered for the first few years was really faith shattering, they simply just made me pause and think.

after a short while, i would file those issues in the back of my brain files and move forward.. .

Cold Steel

For a moment I thought this was going to be a tale of misappropriated funds.

Here you are collecting money, you see folders. I thought for sure it was going to end up with someone going to prison!

How long after this did you go inactive? With people collecting funds alone, how can they make sure people don't get sticky fingers? (Maybe I should have worded that differently.)

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

Cold Steel

Deegee » The Bible states the soul lives on after death but it also says that the soul dies.

It's all in how one defines "soul" and "die."

Soul usually is the being, as in spirit and body are the soul of man. Die/Death is the separation of body and spirit. The soul dies when the body and spirit are separated. The spirit cannot die or cease to exist. The soul can die a spiritual death, which is the separation of God and man.